1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920 [Music] 2 00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:13,920 [Music] 5 00:00:22,970 --> 00:00:16,890 [Applause] 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:22,980 [Music] 7 00:00:29,929 --> 00:00:25,930 hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone 8 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:29,939 episode number 484 the 31st of December 9 00:00:38,549 --> 00:00:35,590 2017 goodbye goodbye good riddance go 10 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:38,559 goodbye 2017 Richardson is here with you 11 00:00:42,630 --> 00:00:40,270 from the San Francisco Bay Area where 12 00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:42,640 I'm having a little bit of a break but 13 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:44,020 not from the skeptic zone of course 14 00:00:48,660 --> 00:00:46,780 coming up on this week's show a trip 15 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:48,670 downtown a couple of trips downtown I 16 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:50,470 catch up with a very dear old friend of 17 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:50,800 mine 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:53,170 Mario Schott Lander who I met many years 19 00:01:01,229 --> 00:00:57,130 ago she was doing science videos how to 20 00:01:04,020 --> 00:01:01,239 do how to test for the speed of light 21 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:04,030 how to measure the speed of light using 22 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:06,910 chocolate bars and a microwave oven the 23 00:01:11,969 --> 00:01:09,369 Doppler effect with ducts in a bathtub 24 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:11,979 all sorts of fun things now about 10 25 00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:12,520 years ago 26 00:01:17,910 --> 00:01:14,800 Morrell wrote an item online about the 27 00:01:21,150 --> 00:01:17,920 flat earth and ten reasons how you can 28 00:01:22,830 --> 00:01:21,160 tell the world really isn't flat well 29 00:01:26,130 --> 00:01:22,840 bizarrely enough of course over the last 30 00:01:28,919 --> 00:01:26,140 a year six months to a year the subject 31 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:28,929 has come up again and her article on 32 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:30,610 popular science is getting many many 33 00:01:35,430 --> 00:01:32,440 hits and comments and all the rest of it 34 00:01:37,770 --> 00:01:35,440 so I go downtown to Union Square in San 35 00:01:40,370 --> 00:01:37,780 Francisco catch up with Mario and we 36 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:40,380 have a nice chat about the Flat Earth 37 00:01:46,559 --> 00:01:43,780 conspiracy theories and why it's why 38 00:01:48,389 --> 00:01:46,569 it's all come back again following that 39 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:48,399 it's an article from the skeptic 40 00:01:53,669 --> 00:01:50,380 magazine at skeptics calm today.you 41 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:53,679 written by Tim Mendham about skeptics in 42 00:01:58,980 --> 00:01:56,410 the pub recently there was a survey 43 00:02:02,070 --> 00:01:58,990 worldwide survey of skeptics in the pub 44 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:02,080 and this is a report and some of the 45 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:06,369 results it's a good guideline a good 46 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:09,250 indication helpful advice for anybody 47 00:02:14,699 --> 00:02:12,450 wanting to start a skeptics in the pub 48 00:02:17,339 --> 00:02:14,709 when to round off the show I head back 49 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:17,349 downtown to San Francisco to near Pier 50 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:21,360 39 and visit the museum mechanic and 51 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:24,310 which I do every time I'm here so it's a 52 00:02:30,089 --> 00:02:27,310 fantastic place arcade games going back 53 00:02:32,290 --> 00:02:30,099 over a century I always play Indiana 54 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:32,300 Jones pinball machine always 55 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:34,130 my favorite pinball machine of all time 56 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:37,730 but this time I go and put a few coins 57 00:02:43,060 --> 00:02:40,480 into one of the fortune-telling machines 58 00:02:46,630 --> 00:02:43,070 just for a bit of fun to round off the 59 00:02:48,490 --> 00:02:46,640 show to round off 2017 a big thank you 60 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:48,500 and a big shout-out to a genie Scott 61 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:51,710 Eugenie Scott here in the Bay Area where 62 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:53,690 my wife and I had a wonderful dinner 63 00:02:58,180 --> 00:02:55,850 with Jeanie we always catch up with 64 00:03:01,300 --> 00:02:58,190 Jeanie whenever we're here and I think 65 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:01,310 if we're very lucky next week we might 66 00:03:07,420 --> 00:03:03,770 be going up by the coast a little bit to 67 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:07,430 visit some of the giant sequoia forests 68 00:03:13,870 --> 00:03:11,930 if we do I'll bring you a report but now 69 00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:13,880 it's time for me to run upstairs and run 70 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:17,390 upstairs one to two flights of stairs 71 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:21,530 into the kitchen and have some have some 72 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:24,040 of the leftover clam chowder the famous 73 00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:28,490 San Francisco clam chowder a favorite of 74 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:29,960 mine for the last 20 years 75 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:33,410 mmm while I do that I hope you enjoy the 76 00:04:03,320 --> 00:03:34,410 skeptic zone 77 00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:06,000 downtown San Francisco we're in Union 78 00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:09,400 Square and we're sitting just on the 79 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:11,920 edge of an ice rink and they're just 80 00:04:16,770 --> 00:04:14,050 preparing for the next group of gleeful 81 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:16,780 people to come out ice-skating I'm with 82 00:04:22,650 --> 00:04:20,170 Mario hello Mario hello it's so great to 83 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:22,660 have this going on now especially in 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:24,700 that now in front of an ice rink and 85 00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:27,010 yeah it's a nice day it's it's warm 86 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:30,160 isn't it it's surprising it's about 10 87 00:04:35,780 --> 00:04:32,410 degrees warmer than I would expect well 88 00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:35,790 in a San Francisco so I think that's 89 00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:38,560 usually expected now we've known each 90 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:41,760 other for many years we first met well 91 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:45,220 nine years ago at the amazing meeting 92 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:47,650 yeah but we were corresponding before 93 00:04:51,450 --> 00:04:48,970 then because you were doing various 94 00:04:55,710 --> 00:04:51,460 things online demonstrating science 95 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:55,720 concepts in your bathtub I did yeah 96 00:04:59,490 --> 00:04:57,870 that's one of those and then a chocolate 97 00:05:01,590 --> 00:04:59,500 measuring the speed of light with 98 00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:01,600 chocolate bars yep yeah I should get 99 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:03,360 back to those I eat a lot of chocolate 100 00:05:10,110 --> 00:05:05,830 you're already a cycled smarter than 101 00:05:12,780 --> 00:05:10,120 that yes yeah so just before we get into 102 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:12,790 the topic which I know you love to talk 103 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:15,010 about which is the flat earth well what 104 00:05:19,950 --> 00:05:17,380 what are you doing at the moment so I'm 105 00:05:21,410 --> 00:05:19,960 um I work as a software engineer at the 106 00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:21,420 Wikimedia Foundation 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:24,660 a little shift from physics but I don't 108 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:27,210 think it was a lot of shift some of my 109 00:05:34,510 --> 00:05:29,970 friends disagree but yeah so I do that 110 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:34,520 now for the past like four years or so I 111 00:05:42,350 --> 00:05:37,770 took a little shift I went to to do my 112 00:05:45,710 --> 00:05:42,360 master's in computer science and then I 113 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:45,720 went to an internship in the Wikimedia 114 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:48,090 Foundation and I just fell in love with 115 00:05:51,140 --> 00:05:49,890 it so we could meet oh no and for those 116 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:51,150 people who don't know what is that all 117 00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:52,800 about the Wikimedia Foundation so that 118 00:05:58,760 --> 00:05:56,420 we can mean that foundation operates 119 00:06:01,520 --> 00:05:58,770 Wikipedia is probably the the site that 120 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:01,530 everybody knows but we have about 11 121 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:03,750 other also projects like Wiktionary and 122 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:07,260 wikispecies and we voice Wiktionary I am 123 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:10,110 NOT Wiktionary yes it's a free 124 00:06:15,290 --> 00:06:13,410 dictionary of course of course in the 125 00:06:18,770 --> 00:06:15,300 spirit of Wikipedia so there's actually 126 00:06:22,970 --> 00:06:18,780 11 project including Wiki Commons 127 00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:22,980 of course yeah picture so we operate all 128 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:25,590 those products we support the 129 00:06:31,670 --> 00:06:29,070 communities you know we build like you 130 00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:31,680 know the infrastructure that allows you 131 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:33,120 know for the sharing of free information 132 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:36,570 for the world and I just fell in love 133 00:06:42,050 --> 00:06:39,450 with the mission and I thought I can 134 00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:42,060 support that so and this is base year in 135 00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:44,790 San Francisco so we're actually all over 136 00:06:51,650 --> 00:06:48,150 the actual yeah the actual yeah the the 137 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:51,660 headquarters are here in downtown San 138 00:06:58,250 --> 00:06:57,090 Francisco and we have staff all over the 139 00:07:00,590 --> 00:06:58,260 world I'm trying to remember if I 140 00:07:02,770 --> 00:07:00,600 probably won't remember all the 141 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:02,780 countries but yeah all over the world 142 00:07:07,190 --> 00:07:05,730 the the yeah the buildings like you know 143 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:07,200 the actual like offices and stuff are 144 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:09,420 here in San Francisco that's very 145 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:11,430 interesting now let's get to this topic 146 00:07:16,250 --> 00:07:14,970 because some years ago about 2008 I 147 00:07:18,890 --> 00:07:16,260 think he was telling me thinking you 148 00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:18,900 wrote something online about the Flat 149 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:22,830 Earth and unbelievably this has come 150 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:24,690 back to bite you hasn't it oh my gosh 151 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:27,870 you know I didn't even expect that that 152 00:07:31,940 --> 00:07:29,520 one would be the one to come and bite me 153 00:07:34,780 --> 00:07:31,950 because I didn't even write it as you 154 00:07:36,740 --> 00:07:34,790 know a an article that would be 155 00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:36,750 contentious I wrote it as a 156 00:07:41,180 --> 00:07:39,870 tongue-in-cheek article to explain to 157 00:07:42,980 --> 00:07:41,190 the people who already know that the 158 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:42,990 world is round just kind of like a 159 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:45,240 layout and explanation of how we do it 160 00:07:49,370 --> 00:07:47,250 like you know it wasn't because of you 161 00:07:51,530 --> 00:07:49,380 know Columbus finding the Americas 162 00:07:53,030 --> 00:07:51,540 obviously so how did we know it and how 163 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:53,040 far back did we know it like you know 164 00:07:56,570 --> 00:07:54,690 from the Greek time and how do doing it 165 00:07:58,850 --> 00:07:56,580 that was the point of it and so I wrote 166 00:08:02,240 --> 00:07:58,860 an article you know ten ways to know the 167 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:02,250 earth is not flat and I basically laid 168 00:08:09,260 --> 00:08:06,050 out ten ten ways that we in human 169 00:08:10,420 --> 00:08:09,270 societies down to like you know 170 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:10,430 thousands of 171 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:13,100 knew that the world is not only not flat 172 00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:17,210 but it is round and we can measure its 173 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:18,620 circumference yes 174 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:22,010 and I published that and that gained a 175 00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:25,250 little bit of attention for for several 176 00:08:30,490 --> 00:08:28,910 years yeah a little bit of really weird 177 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:30,500 attention I started getting comments 178 00:08:35,830 --> 00:08:33,890 from you know somewhat trolls and some I 179 00:08:37,990 --> 00:08:35,840 think were actually members of the Flat 180 00:08:40,510 --> 00:08:38,000 Earth Society I couldn't never I could 181 00:08:43,270 --> 00:08:40,520 never really tell the difference I know 182 00:08:45,790 --> 00:08:43,280 I you know I think some of them you know 183 00:08:47,380 --> 00:08:45,800 did this just to stir the waters but 184 00:08:49,390 --> 00:08:47,390 there were people who actually believe 185 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:49,400 that beer sits flat so then there were a 186 00:08:56,590 --> 00:08:52,310 lot of arguments in the comments and 187 00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:56,600 this was in 2008 and every I think every 188 00:09:02,290 --> 00:08:58,490 year so I had like you know a wave where 189 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:02,300 I suddenly would get twenty thirty up to 190 00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:06,490 than 50 comments a day on that 191 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:09,550 ridiculous argument yeah 192 00:09:16,019 --> 00:09:13,540 I mean there's no words yeah I know yeah 193 00:09:16,769 --> 00:09:16,029 it's it's it's a it's the running joke 194 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:16,779 isn't it 195 00:09:19,769 --> 00:09:19,120 in the skeptical community it's it's the 196 00:09:22,670 --> 00:09:19,779 running joke 197 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:22,680 oh yes flat earth of course ha ha but I 198 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:25,690 guess the joke is on us now in the last 199 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:29,950 six months so yeah I mean at some point 200 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:31,810 I decided I'd never do that 201 00:09:36,930 --> 00:09:33,700 but at some point I just decided to 202 00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:36,940 close down the comments on that post I 203 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:39,100 think there's something like 6,000 204 00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:41,170 comments on that post already and it 205 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:44,140 became completely out of control and I 206 00:09:48,180 --> 00:09:46,600 didn't feel like there was really much 207 00:09:49,319 --> 00:09:48,190 contribution it just kept on going the 208 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:49,329 same arguments I just closed the 209 00:09:52,949 --> 00:09:51,130 comments and then a couple months after 210 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:52,959 that which was I think six months ago or 211 00:09:58,350 --> 00:09:54,910 maybe a year ago something like that I 212 00:10:01,590 --> 00:09:58,360 know if you remember but the rapper 213 00:10:03,810 --> 00:10:01,600 b.o.b I think that was him yeah 214 00:10:07,699 --> 00:10:03,820 yeah he started going off with you know 215 00:10:10,769 --> 00:10:07,709 Flat Earth wise comments whatever 216 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:10,779 baiting you know specifically I think it 217 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:12,490 was the Neil deGrasse Tyson but baiting 218 00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:14,290 the scientific community to answer back 219 00:10:18,329 --> 00:10:15,940 and there was a little bit of noise 220 00:10:20,130 --> 00:10:18,339 online but of course Neil deGrasse Tyson 221 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:20,140 has better things to do so he answered 222 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:23,170 on Twitter and then dropped it but then 223 00:10:29,010 --> 00:10:26,470 I got an email from 224 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:29,020 popular science and they were saying hey 225 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:31,120 this is you know came up to the news 226 00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:32,890 again and we're wondering if we can 227 00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:35,080 republish you know the article that you 228 00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:37,839 wrote and of course I said yes I was 229 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:40,300 really honored it was really cool I was 230 00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:42,370 like sure yeah of course 231 00:10:47,699 --> 00:10:46,300 let me think of note yes of course so 232 00:10:50,430 --> 00:10:47,709 they did and they put it up and it was 233 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:50,440 really cool and I knew that you know if 234 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:53,830 I got on my website you know five 235 00:10:57,630 --> 00:10:56,050 thousand or something comments I'd 236 00:11:00,780 --> 00:10:57,640 probably get a few more comments on 237 00:11:02,699 --> 00:11:00,790 popular science publication in it of 238 00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:02,709 course I did like on Twitter people 239 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:05,640 started to you know either thank me or 240 00:11:10,139 --> 00:11:08,350 argue most of the arguments of course 241 00:11:12,810 --> 00:11:10,149 were people who seem to not have read 242 00:11:14,610 --> 00:11:12,820 the article you know they argued and 243 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:14,620 then all I had to do was read number 244 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:18,370 three but the earth isn't flat because 245 00:11:23,579 --> 00:11:21,730 blah oh and number nine which is great 246 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:23,589 when you make a list right then our 247 00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:25,450 article that is a list of things that 248 00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:28,680 you can refer to the to the answer 249 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:33,940 really so yeah so then you know ever 250 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:38,050 since then every time anyone and it 251 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:41,050 seemed to be happening lately raises the 252 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:44,410 issue who Flat Earth I seem to be the 253 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:48,310 easy target to approach with either you 254 00:11:52,199 --> 00:11:49,570 don't know what you're talking about the 255 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:52,209 world is flat and then weird arguments 256 00:11:59,730 --> 00:11:56,250 or you know hey share this whatever so 257 00:12:03,540 --> 00:11:59,740 one of the things that are happening is 258 00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:03,550 that you know in Twitter you can mention 259 00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:05,500 someone and then the rest of the thread 260 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:09,040 that someone will you know remain yeah 261 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:12,310 mentioned so I would get in in kind of 262 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:14,950 waves ever since the publication I would 263 00:12:20,610 --> 00:12:18,520 get just conversations of people that 264 00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:20,620 are saying of course the world isn't 265 00:12:25,139 --> 00:12:23,649 flat because and then you know arguments 266 00:12:26,070 --> 00:12:25,149 that they think I never heard before but 267 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:26,080 of course 268 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:28,450 you heard them all right I mean there's 269 00:12:34,889 --> 00:12:29,860 a limit to how many arguments you can 270 00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:34,899 put out the doors is flat I just let it 271 00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,000 happen at some point I'm like thanks 272 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:39,519 that's awesome and just let them visit 273 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:41,170 me at the article and popular science 274 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:42,910 this is your your writing that's still 275 00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:45,250 online and popular science it is we will 276 00:12:48,930 --> 00:12:46,540 certainly link to that in the show notes 277 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:48,940 and what I mean what's the number one 278 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:50,529 thing that the flat earthers would come 279 00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:52,360 you know right off the bat what would 280 00:12:55,470 --> 00:12:53,920 they say Oh what's their biggest 281 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:55,480 argument oh they would say I don't know 282 00:12:59,960 --> 00:12:57,370 what I'm talking about and the 283 00:13:03,389 --> 00:12:59,970 government is is just lying to everybody 284 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:03,399 I I don't know if I saw like in a one 285 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:06,790 single oh we have a that's the one world 286 00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:09,570 government flying overhead that's right 287 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:14,350 I mean I I can't say that I you know 288 00:13:18,690 --> 00:13:16,810 I've seen one specific argument I think 289 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:18,700 I've seen one specific method because I 290 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:21,130 think that what they do is no matter 291 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:23,980 what you say they will say that you know 292 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:26,410 the government is behind it or that you 293 00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:29,410 are the shill of the government so it's 294 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:31,630 quite often they revert to a conspiracy 295 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:33,850 theory very quickly yeah they start with 296 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:36,370 that they say they don't even they don't 297 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:39,550 even go by you know or most of the times 298 00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,850 they don't even go enough by lets you 299 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:44,560 know argue with the science like oh no 300 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:47,020 but how come this is true right they 301 00:13:51,090 --> 00:13:48,490 would start with that something very 302 00:13:54,030 --> 00:13:51,100 small like for example the reason that 303 00:13:56,490 --> 00:13:54,040 you see boats in the horizon right that 304 00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:56,500 the boats and one of the arguments is 305 00:14:00,540 --> 00:13:58,959 that boats in the horizon rise up yeah 306 00:14:02,430 --> 00:14:00,550 so you see them rise up right and then 307 00:14:04,139 --> 00:14:02,440 you say well obviously one of the things 308 00:14:07,230 --> 00:14:04,149 they'll say is that no your eyes are 309 00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:07,240 just not very good I know it's weird 310 00:14:12,569 --> 00:14:10,870 oh just shaking my head in disbelief and 311 00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:12,579 I got that and you know I wear glasses 312 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:16,870 so they're not wrong but you know we do 313 00:14:21,329 --> 00:14:20,110 use I don't know binoculars or stuff 314 00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:21,339 like that so they would say something 315 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:24,430 that is fairly ridiculous so they would 316 00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:25,630 say something like no actually that's 317 00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:27,640 the distance see if you look at the 318 00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,959 distance and then when I show and I 319 00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:30,560 think in the article there's there 320 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:33,320 even like drawn drawn out angles the 321 00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,470 things show it yeah so when I show that 322 00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:38,240 even if that's true even if like you 323 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:40,070 know your eyes specifically can see it 324 00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:43,010 let's sleep look at you know just optics 325 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:45,110 like the science of you know the physics 326 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:49,370 of optics then they immediately go to no 327 00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:51,890 it can't be it's a conspiracy or but 328 00:14:56,050 --> 00:14:53,870 then and they jump to the next one like 329 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:56,060 you know when you go in a plane you can 330 00:14:58,930 --> 00:14:57,350 actually don't see it this way and let 331 00:15:01,150 --> 00:14:58,940 me say yes you do know it's the windows 332 00:15:04,180 --> 00:15:01,160 that or 10 or whatever so they just jump 333 00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:04,190 from one since it's that bad yes I mean 334 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:07,580 well I I guess that has to be because in 335 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:08,930 the back of my head I'm thinking oh they 336 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:11,690 must have some halfway convincing 337 00:15:15,070 --> 00:15:13,490 argument really really don't know no 338 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:15,080 they don't and you know what there there 339 00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:19,010 are some that also so they I encounter a 340 00:15:25,150 --> 00:15:20,390 lot of people that are either actual 341 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:25,160 flat earthers or that are expanding 342 00:15:33,070 --> 00:15:29,600 earth fearest I'm getting my head around 343 00:15:33,579 --> 00:15:33,080 one thing they're expanding what's this 344 00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:33,589 all about 345 00:15:42,970 --> 00:15:38,750 oh gosh sit down listen is it all right 346 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:42,980 yeah and and yeah I hope so 347 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:45,890 the expanding Earth theory which is not 348 00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:49,610 a really sentence theory but ok says 349 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:52,220 that the earth started out smaller yeah 350 00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:54,260 and then it is expanding like a balloon 351 00:15:59,500 --> 00:15:57,110 and that is the reason for you know the 352 00:16:00,040 --> 00:15:59,510 shift the movements from Pangaea to the 353 00:16:10,869 --> 00:16:00,050 you know 354 00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:10,879 and whatever at least they say the earth 355 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:16,639 is a sphere yes yes no here's the thing 356 00:16:24,569 --> 00:16:18,649 so I I did a bachelor's in physics yeah 357 00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:24,579 and I think in in the first month of 358 00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:28,639 electrodynamics we solved for what would 359 00:16:33,479 --> 00:16:31,519 happen if the earth was hollow and it 360 00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:33,489 took us about like you know a homework 361 00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:35,929 assignment to realize that that is 362 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:36,889 ridiculous 363 00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,529 right one homework assignment so true it 364 00:16:45,009 --> 00:16:41,600 was in college level but it was like the 365 00:16:48,539 --> 00:16:45,019 first year of physics so it's absolutely 366 00:16:51,939 --> 00:16:48,549 ridiculous there are it's no words but 367 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:51,949 they seem to be very related with kind 368 00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,790 of like you know the Flat Earth 369 00:16:55,479 --> 00:16:54,079 obviously they don't agree with 370 00:16:57,489 --> 00:16:55,489 themselves like you know one one thing 371 00:17:00,160 --> 00:16:57,499 this way but they use a lot of the 372 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:00,170 common things right like you know they 373 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:02,689 use a lot of the oh no the government is 374 00:17:07,929 --> 00:17:05,329 lying to you or we are being dismissed 375 00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:07,939 even though we know the truth of the 376 00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:09,500 matter even though they will not be able 377 00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:11,689 to solve for the fairly easy it's not 378 00:17:14,769 --> 00:17:12,470 that horrible 379 00:17:17,409 --> 00:17:14,779 equations of okay how would gravity work 380 00:17:20,740 --> 00:17:17,419 you know if the earth was hollow yeah 381 00:17:22,179 --> 00:17:20,750 right which you can do without much the 382 00:17:24,669 --> 00:17:22,189 mass would be completely different 383 00:17:28,449 --> 00:17:24,679 surely look at you just you have a lot 384 00:17:30,430 --> 00:17:28,459 less mass for one but there's yeah I 385 00:17:32,649 --> 00:17:30,440 mean it's it's ridiculous it's just 386 00:17:34,450 --> 00:17:32,659 Willie I mean I know we're going down 387 00:17:36,399 --> 00:17:34,460 the rabbit hole already but what is it 388 00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,409 about especially about the Flat Earth 389 00:17:41,740 --> 00:17:39,679 what is so appealing in the last six 390 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:41,750 months the last year why are so many 391 00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:45,520 people jumping on the bandwagon as a 392 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:48,720 cable car goes by over there there 393 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:50,370 why are so many people jumping on this 394 00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:52,920 bandwagon what's what's the appeal you 395 00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:57,950 know I think we we have just a movement 396 00:18:03,860 --> 00:18:01,020 fairly recently in the last couple of 397 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:03,870 years of just anti science and I think 398 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:05,730 that affects that a lot I mean I think 399 00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:09,210 people are anti intellectualism right 400 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:13,980 and anti science is just rising and for 401 00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:18,810 people who are you know who look for 402 00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:20,550 something to latch onto to kind of like 403 00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:22,590 you know to say okay that is wrong it's 404 00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:24,300 an easy one right because you look out 405 00:18:27,860 --> 00:18:26,580 the window the world does look flat well 406 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,870 that's what they say they say you know I 407 00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:30,000 look around me and I go to the ocean and 408 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:31,860 I look out and it looks it doesn't look 409 00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:34,050 round to me that's right and you know 410 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:35,880 you and I and all I listen to the game 411 00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:41,250 will do I mean yes what what I find 412 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:44,280 really weird in that is that I could 413 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:46,910 have understood that and like you know 414 00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:50,610 hundred years ago even but nowadays you 415 00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:52,110 have telescopes that can look at other 416 00:18:56,570 --> 00:18:54,750 planets in your own apartment you don't 417 00:18:58,990 --> 00:18:56,580 even need to do anything and you see 418 00:19:03,310 --> 00:18:59,000 that other planets are round 419 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:03,320 and yeah I mean you go on a plane and 420 00:19:07,659 --> 00:19:05,090 you see the curvature of the earth from 421 00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:07,669 the plane it's so accessible now right 422 00:19:12,430 --> 00:19:10,100 yeah so I do think that the Flat Earth 423 00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:12,440 thing is not as many people I think 424 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:14,750 that's just it's very it's a small a lot 425 00:19:19,539 --> 00:19:16,970 of people just do it for fun I think I 426 00:19:21,399 --> 00:19:19,549 think there are probably you know trolls 427 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:21,409 mixed in with you do believe I also 428 00:19:24,399 --> 00:19:22,730 think that some of them and this is 429 00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:24,409 something that I noticed not just with 430 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:26,990 flat let's just do general sort of 431 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:29,390 science I think some of the people that 432 00:19:35,289 --> 00:19:32,570 we argue with are actually kids that try 433 00:19:38,169 --> 00:19:35,299 to learn things and they fall into 434 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:38,179 sometimes traps that they don't 435 00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:40,370 understand and it seems very logical and 436 00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:41,630 they read things that they don't know 437 00:19:45,549 --> 00:19:43,640 how to analyze the air and they latch 438 00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:45,559 onto that and think oh the adults 439 00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:47,990 dismiss me because I'm a kid you know so 440 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:49,340 I see a lot of those it's kind of like 441 00:19:54,669 --> 00:19:52,070 the forums that I'm in and it's it's 442 00:19:58,600 --> 00:19:54,679 hard because you you don't want to you 443 00:20:00,669 --> 00:19:58,610 know completely discouraged you know the 444 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:00,679 kid from learning you don't want to say 445 00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,850 dude you have no idea what you're 446 00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:03,200 talking about cause honey they won't go 447 00:20:06,610 --> 00:20:05,270 out and you know try to learn but on the 448 00:20:09,310 --> 00:20:06,620 other hand you kind of do want them to 449 00:20:11,529 --> 00:20:09,320 understand that they're not doing it 450 00:20:14,260 --> 00:20:11,539 right so those arguments for me are the 451 00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:14,270 hardest because I do see potential and I 452 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:17,030 am trying yeah but the rest are yeah 453 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:18,799 there are trolls and there are you know 454 00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:21,110 just cranks out there there's people who 455 00:20:26,380 --> 00:20:23,000 you know no matter what you do will 456 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:26,390 believe that you know 9/11 was planned 457 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:27,690 and 458 00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,370 though you know we should think it back 459 00:20:39,769 --> 00:20:37,679 once again to people just default to 460 00:20:41,810 --> 00:20:39,779 conspiracy theory and sort of covers 461 00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:41,820 their every argument in the end no 462 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:43,500 matter what argument you put up if your 463 00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:45,330 your argument is obviously part of the 464 00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,019 conspiracy 465 00:20:50,749 --> 00:20:48,480 reminds me some months ago I was on the 466 00:20:52,340 --> 00:20:50,759 radio doing a radio segment and the host 467 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:52,350 said to me okay Richard you've got 30 468 00:20:55,779 --> 00:20:54,090 seconds convince us why the world is 469 00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:55,789 round 470 00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:58,620 alright Mario you've got 30 seconds why 471 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:00,539 is the world round well luckily I wrote 472 00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:08,610 an article about it I think so I mean 473 00:21:14,259 --> 00:21:11,279 yeah I mean I I honestly I stopped 474 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:14,269 arguing with with flat-earthers 475 00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:17,370 because I see all the arguments over and 476 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:18,870 over and they're being answered not just 477 00:21:22,249 --> 00:21:20,730 in my article I mean there's a lot of 478 00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:22,259 other articles they're being answered 479 00:21:27,769 --> 00:21:24,269 and usually when someone says that 480 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:27,779 nowadays they they don't care about the 481 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:30,090 answer yes of course yeah yeah so there 482 00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:34,470 is not a day I mean you know two months 483 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:36,120 ago I was hearing a lot about the Flat 484 00:21:40,850 --> 00:21:37,860 Earth not so much now I think these 485 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:40,860 things come and go but that it's there 486 00:21:44,419 --> 00:21:42,690 at all is still amazing you know what 487 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,429 you heard about it I think it was either 488 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:46,080 two months or maybe a month ago you know 489 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:47,970 why it was in the news because there's a 490 00:21:52,009 --> 00:21:49,470 guy who decided from the Flat Earth 491 00:21:55,490 --> 00:21:52,019 Science Society or something decided to 492 00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:55,500 shoot himself from a cannon in order to 493 00:22:02,029 --> 00:21:59,039 prove that the world is flat so good 494 00:22:03,889 --> 00:22:02,039 luck yes I mean let's stand up and we 495 00:22:08,419 --> 00:22:03,899 walk over to the gate here the fence and 496 00:22:11,389 --> 00:22:08,429 look at this we have all these kids and 497 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:11,399 people all now merrily skating on there 498 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:20,560 mário great to catch up with you once 499 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:23,210 again here in San Francisco and well 500 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:25,490 here's to the flat earth here here's to 501 00:22:29,470 --> 00:22:27,650 going back to Australia over the curve 502 00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:29,480 right over the edge of the of the earth 503 00:22:53,650 --> 00:22:51,440 over the edge it never ends 504 00:22:56,260 --> 00:22:53,660 friend starts talking about his new 505 00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:56,270 Reiki Master and someone else posts 506 00:23:00,580 --> 00:22:58,850 about another all natural cancer cure 507 00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:00,590 that they don't want you to know about 508 00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:03,350 as skeptics we dedicate a lot of time 509 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:06,020 trying to protect those around us but 510 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:07,930 there's a way you can reach millions 511 00:23:12,550 --> 00:23:10,850 guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia is a 512 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:12,560 group that is working to keep the best 513 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:14,900 skeptical information at everyone's 514 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:16,850 fingertips in all languages 515 00:23:23,170 --> 00:23:20,510 join us training a self-paced and fun 516 00:23:25,630 --> 00:23:23,180 and we have a very own super secret 517 00:23:28,330 --> 00:23:25,640 Facebook group you'll be educating the 518 00:23:33,390 --> 00:23:28,340 world in your sleep to find out more 519 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:33,400 email us at GS o w team at gmail.com 520 00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:37,510 guerrilla skepticism the time is now 521 00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:39,750 music by bensound.com 522 00:24:04,539 --> 00:23:59,799 from the pages of the Australian skeptic 523 00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:04,549 magazine the skeptic volume 37 number 4 524 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:08,809 for December 2017 an article by Tim 525 00:24:13,659 --> 00:24:11,510 Mendham all about skeptics in the pub 526 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:13,669 now a longtime listeners to a sceptic 527 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,950 zone are very familiar with that the 528 00:24:20,649 --> 00:24:18,320 reports but it could be by may nod at 529 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:20,659 Sydney skeptics in the pub skeptics in 530 00:24:23,710 --> 00:24:22,370 the pub it's a lot of fun it's 531 00:24:25,419 --> 00:24:23,720 relatively easy to put together 532 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:25,429 providing you can find the right venue 533 00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:31,370 of course and it's certainly worth 534 00:24:37,899 --> 00:24:34,880 trying out in your location the article 535 00:24:40,419 --> 00:24:37,909 says Australia has had a close 536 00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:40,429 association with the history of those 537 00:24:45,399 --> 00:24:43,039 informal gatherings known as skeptics in 538 00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:45,409 the pub Tim Mendham reports on the highs 539 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:48,289 and lows and current state of the 540 00:24:54,450 --> 00:24:52,010 skeptics in the pub movement Wikipedia 541 00:24:57,490 --> 00:24:54,460 to find skeptics in the pub as quote an 542 00:24:59,380 --> 00:24:57,500 informal social event designed to 543 00:25:01,450 --> 00:24:59,390 promote fellowship and the social 544 00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:01,460 networking among skeptics critical 545 00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:03,950 thinkers free thinkers rationalists and 546 00:25:08,169 --> 00:25:06,049 other like-minded individuals it 547 00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,179 provides an opportunity for skeptics to 548 00:25:13,419 --> 00:25:10,640 talk share ideas and have fun in a 549 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:13,429 casual atmosphere and discuss whatever 550 00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:16,490 topic or issues come to mind while 551 00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:19,510 promoting skepticism science and 552 00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,120 rationality end quote now of course that 553 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:25,520 leaves out the key ingredient which is 554 00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,490 the pub meeting in a convivial 555 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,559 environment with drinks and hopefully a 556 00:25:35,649 --> 00:25:33,200 meal a speaker and probably some 557 00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:35,659 interesting intriguing and/or real 558 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:39,440 questions means the venue has to lend 559 00:25:44,620 --> 00:25:42,260 itself to such activities and generally 560 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:44,630 not charging for admission means there 561 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:46,610 aren't many places where such gatherings 562 00:25:52,539 --> 00:25:49,490 can take place some gatherings are quite 563 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:52,549 small the table in the corner may do and 564 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:55,370 others require a room dedicated to the 565 00:26:00,460 --> 00:25:57,890 event so your choice of venue will very 566 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:00,470 much decide what sort of meeting 567 00:26:07,810 --> 00:26:05,090 intended to be ye oldie puppy while the 568 00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:07,820 ye is actually pronounced to thee but 569 00:26:13,149 --> 00:26:11,120 anyway the skeptics in the pub movement 570 00:26:16,029 --> 00:26:13,159 is generally agreed to have started in 571 00:26:17,789 --> 00:26:16,039 London in 1999 and that's where the 572 00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:17,799 Australian Connexions raises its head 573 00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:21,350 dr. Scott Campbell was associate 574 00:26:26,529 --> 00:26:24,350 professor and reader in philosophy at 575 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:26,539 the University of Nottingham equally 576 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:28,370 pertinent is that he was born in 577 00:26:33,340 --> 00:26:30,650 Tasmania got his doctorate from the 578 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:33,350 University of New South Wales and was on 579 00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:35,090 the committee of Australian skeptics Inc 580 00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:37,760 in Sydney during the mid 90s he also 581 00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:39,260 spoke at the third world 582 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:42,080 skeptics convention in the year 2000 at 583 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:44,360 that time the largest sceptical event 584 00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:46,700 ever held in Australia the London 585 00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:48,440 skeptics in the pub started in February 586 00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:51,440 1999 with the first speaker being Wendy 587 00:26:57,130 --> 00:26:54,230 Grossman the founder and editor of the 588 00:26:59,710 --> 00:26:57,140 UK skeptic magazine Campbell based the 589 00:27:02,140 --> 00:26:59,720 idea around philosophy in the pub and 590 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:02,150 science in the pub to groups which had 591 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:04,130 been running in Australia for some time 592 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:06,530 the first London skeptics in the pub 593 00:27:12,970 --> 00:27:10,010 attracted 30 attendees it is still going 594 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:12,980 and now jointly by many others Wikipedia 595 00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:16,250 suggests quote more than 100 active 596 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:18,230 satellite chapters around the world 597 00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:21,049 including more than 30 in the US and 598 00:27:27,310 --> 00:27:24,260 more than 40 in the UK in quote calling 599 00:27:29,950 --> 00:27:27,320 them satellites is misleading 600 00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:29,960 while some skeptics in the pub our 601 00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:32,360 activities run by more established 602 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:35,030 skeptical groups one of the key aspects 603 00:27:42,010 --> 00:27:37,280 of skeptics in the pub is that they are 604 00:27:45,010 --> 00:27:42,020 informal and run their own programs the 605 00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,020 current state the Glasgow skeptics 606 00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:47,120 decided to investigate the true status 607 00:27:51,730 --> 00:27:49,340 of the phenomenon and did a global 608 00:27:55,450 --> 00:27:51,740 survey of skeptics in the pub managers 609 00:27:58,360 --> 00:27:55,460 and organizers Glasgow skeptics itself 610 00:28:00,190 --> 00:27:58,370 was formed in 2009 and runs two pub 611 00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:00,200 meetings per month as well as other 612 00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:02,840 meetings and lectures the glass region 613 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:05,390 has contacted 115 organizations around 614 00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:08,090 the world by the sceptics in the pub's 615 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:12,470 own websites Facebook Twitter Email etc 616 00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:14,310 whatever means the particular scape 617 00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:17,880 in the pub used they heard back from 53 618 00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:20,820 of them in the UK Island they approached 619 00:28:27,050 --> 00:28:23,910 53 and had 28 responses both sets of 620 00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:27,060 responses can be seen to be a good 621 00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:29,430 representative sample of the entirety of 622 00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:31,710 the skeptics in the pub movement one 623 00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:35,190 issue is knowing whether those skeptics 624 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:39,120 in the pubs that did not respond were 625 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:42,330 either inactive or just a bit apathetic 626 00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:44,850 it can be a frustration to would-be 627 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:47,640 attendees if they visit a meet-up page 628 00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:51,750 and see little to indicate whether a 629 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:54,180 meeting is on or not it is even more 630 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:56,010 frustrating if they have to take the 631 00:29:01,520 --> 00:28:57,690 plunge and turn up to a skeptics in the 632 00:29:03,620 --> 00:29:01,530 pub meeting to find no one's there to a 633 00:29:05,620 --> 00:29:03,630 certain extent however it is 634 00:29:08,030 --> 00:29:05,630 understandable skeptics in the pub 635 00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:08,040 launched with the best of intentions but 636 00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:10,910 because of various factors such as there 637 00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:14,190 just isn't an audience or key organisers 638 00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,950 move on they can fall by the wayside 639 00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,960 there have been various like that in 640 00:29:23,210 --> 00:29:21,360 Australia though currently there are 19 641 00:29:26,390 --> 00:29:23,220 groups listened in the pages of this 642 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:26,400 magazine most of which but not all are 643 00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,650 active in holding meetings and sometimes 644 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:31,440 take on more activist roles of the UK 645 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:34,110 groups 5 had only one organizer which 646 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:37,170 puts groups at risk of fading if that 647 00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:39,450 one person decides enough is enough gets 648 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:41,820 transferred or for whatever reason pulls 649 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:44,970 out of the organiser role conversely 8 650 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:47,490 groups have five or more organizers 651 00:29:54,170 --> 00:29:50,970 which implies a good backup for all 652 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:54,180 contingencies and hopefully not many 653 00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,050 arguments over direction 34 of the 654 00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:00,480 skeptics in the pub who responded have 655 00:30:08,090 --> 00:30:03,300 Facebook pages and 20 have Facebook 656 00:30:10,580 --> 00:30:08,100 groups 3 users Twitter 32 Meetup and 9 657 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:10,590 uses YouTube and 3 each for both 658 00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:13,890 Instagram and Google+ six groups 659 00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:16,020 frequently or always pay for advertising 660 00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:20,040 and five occasionally 7 rarely and the 661 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:22,860 vast majority 31 never use paid 662 00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,070 advertising but they do use a wide range 663 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:28,080 of media to promote events a 664 00:30:32,570 --> 00:30:30,630 from Facebook Twitter and Meetup there 665 00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:32,580 is promotion via other groups asking 666 00:30:37,009 --> 00:30:34,260 speakers to promote their own talk 667 00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:37,019 newsletters posted Facebook events using 668 00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:40,169 keywords Flyers selecting a group of 669 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:42,059 high-profile speakers during the year to 670 00:30:47,810 --> 00:30:44,610 encourage a regular audience and of 671 00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:47,820 course word of mouth one even resorted 672 00:30:53,620 --> 00:30:50,340 to using posters in the pubs toilets 673 00:30:57,649 --> 00:30:53,630 with Facebook followers nine groups had 674 00:31:00,019 --> 00:30:57,659 250 or less and four had more than 2,000 675 00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:00,029 the rest are largely gathered around the 676 00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:04,200 200 to 1000 mark so how often do they 677 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:07,080 meet at the bottom end 10 groups hosted 678 00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:10,620 5 or less events per year at the top end 679 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:14,340 two groups hosted more than 30 ie close 680 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:18,090 to three per month the vast majority 681 00:31:25,789 --> 00:31:22,440 hosts between 6 and 15 events so we can 682 00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:25,799 say monthly meetings are the norm as to 683 00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:27,960 the size of the meeting 5 groups had an 684 00:31:33,980 --> 00:31:30,720 average attendance of 10 people or less 685 00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:33,990 with 7 averaging more than 50 the rest 686 00:31:39,139 --> 00:31:36,360 are fairly evenly staggered between 11 687 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:39,149 and 50 in the UK the average donation 688 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:42,690 made by attendees is 2 pounds and 70 689 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,320 pounds words of wisdom what advice did 690 00:31:50,659 --> 00:31:48,240 they offer to those who would like to 691 00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:50,669 set up as skeptics in the pub or get 692 00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:53,519 theirs running more smoothly consistency 693 00:31:58,180 --> 00:31:56,279 of timing and format is an important 694 00:32:02,899 --> 00:31:58,190 aspect of keeping audiences interested 695 00:32:06,049 --> 00:32:02,909 quote same venue same place same date in 696 00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,059 quotes said one UK group one Australian 697 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:08,760 skeptics in the pub put it quote promote 698 00:32:13,639 --> 00:32:11,730 early and promote often get on the 699 00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:13,649 podcast especially for the bigger events 700 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:16,409 like skeptic amp we rarely if ever pay 701 00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:19,260 for promotion share links into the 702 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:21,870 regional skeptical groups we regularly 703 00:32:26,299 --> 00:32:23,490 get people from interstate for our 704 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:26,309 skeptic amp get people sharing the 705 00:32:32,289 --> 00:32:28,970 events in quote another Australian group 706 00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,299 quote tip number one develop an ongoing 707 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:34,559 relationship with the manager of the 708 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:37,230 venue always bear in mind it is a 709 00:32:41,789 --> 00:32:39,690 business for them and holding your event 710 00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,799 has to be commercially viable 711 00:32:46,259 --> 00:32:43,840 particularly if they are putting on 712 00:32:48,989 --> 00:32:46,269 extra stuff for the event in quote being 713 00:32:50,999 --> 00:32:48,999 properly prepared is a regular 714 00:32:54,330 --> 00:32:51,009 suggestions especially with appropriate 715 00:32:56,369 --> 00:32:54,340 seating theater style or dinner ensuring 716 00:32:59,070 --> 00:32:56,379 you have the correct AV for all 717 00:33:01,859 --> 00:32:59,080 occasions one group suggested providing 718 00:33:04,529 --> 00:33:01,869 laptops for presenters to make sure they 719 00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:04,539 are compatible with the venue having a 720 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:06,220 well thought-out checklist for both 721 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:09,730 prior and during the event is obviously 722 00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:12,730 vital make sure everyone knows what they 723 00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:14,529 have to do and are prepared 724 00:33:20,009 --> 00:33:17,190 finding good speakers can be a challenge 725 00:33:22,349 --> 00:33:20,019 generally recommendations for attendees 726 00:33:24,989 --> 00:33:22,359 or committee members is a good starting 727 00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:24,999 point once you have one preparing them 728 00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:27,609 is important so they are aware of how 729 00:33:32,729 --> 00:33:30,190 much time they have and what they can 730 00:33:34,499 --> 00:33:32,739 expect from the audience and what level 731 00:33:37,529 --> 00:33:34,509 of information they will need to have 732 00:33:40,739 --> 00:33:37,539 most skeptical audiences are pretty well 733 00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:40,749 educated have an interest in science but 734 00:33:48,029 --> 00:33:44,710 a few have PhDs in advanced mathematical 735 00:33:50,129 --> 00:33:48,039 theory always have a plan B it says one 736 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:50,139 New Zealand group and most importantly 737 00:33:57,239 --> 00:33:52,450 has one danish group suggests quote a 738 00:33:59,759 --> 00:33:57,249 good place with decent beer in quote fun 739 00:34:02,549 --> 00:33:59,769 and games apart from all the 740 00:34:05,369 --> 00:34:02,559 quantitative stuff and good advice the 741 00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:05,379 Glasgow survey allowed respondents free 742 00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,079 rein to wax lyrical on issues they've 743 00:34:13,710 --> 00:34:10,960 faced sometimes you wonder why they do 744 00:34:16,649 --> 00:34:13,720 it for instance for one New Zealand 745 00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,659 group quote that was a cold rainy night 746 00:34:21,329 --> 00:34:18,639 when there was me and one other person 747 00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:21,339 who turned up in quote that can be 748 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:22,990 particularly embarrassing when you have 749 00:34:27,450 --> 00:34:25,210 a high profile speaker who arrives and 750 00:34:30,930 --> 00:34:27,460 there are more people behind the bar 751 00:34:33,569 --> 00:34:30,940 than in the audience one European group 752 00:34:36,329 --> 00:34:33,579 reported on a particularly challenging 753 00:34:40,139 --> 00:34:36,339 event quote we had a sceptical event 754 00:34:43,049 --> 00:34:40,149 about Satanism we're two very drunk of 755 00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:43,059 bonafide e Satanists turned up and ended 756 00:34:48,539 --> 00:34:45,399 up in a drunk fight it was interesting 757 00:34:51,149 --> 00:34:48,549 but the talk was very good end quote if 758 00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:51,159 only they could all be as exciting as 759 00:34:57,129 --> 00:34:55,810 maybe thanks to Brian eggo of the 760 00:35:00,040 --> 00:34:57,139 Glasgow skeptics 761 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:00,050 let's go skeptics comm for organizing 762 00:35:04,510 --> 00:35:01,970 this survey and supplying us with the 763 00:35:06,849 --> 00:35:04,520 results Brian gave a presentation 764 00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:06,859 covering the survey and a recent QED 765 00:35:13,210 --> 00:35:09,680 convention in Manchester from which some 766 00:35:15,550 --> 00:35:13,220 of this article is drawn and that report 767 00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:15,560 can be found in the latest issue of the 768 00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:18,200 skeptic magazine available at skeptics 769 00:35:25,690 --> 00:35:21,830 comm delay you volume 37 number 4 for 770 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:25,700 December 2017 along with many many other 771 00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:28,790 fine articles and just as an aside I 772 00:35:37,810 --> 00:35:35,320 believe it was 2003 when yours truly 773 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:37,820 founded Sydney skeptics in the pub it 774 00:35:45,250 --> 00:35:41,690 was 2003 or 2004 since then we've met 775 00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:45,260 just about every month in one pub or 776 00:35:49,390 --> 00:35:46,910 another we've moved about four or five 777 00:35:52,210 --> 00:35:49,400 different pubs around the city currently 778 00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,220 we're at the Occidental near winin where 779 00:36:02,020 --> 00:35:54,560 I think we've found probably the best 780 00:36:04,210 --> 00:36:02,030 venue so far and one that reminds me 781 00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:04,220 coming up in a next month or the month 782 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:07,070 after we'll be having a sceptical trivia 783 00:36:29,830 --> 00:36:09,410 night at skeptics in the pub stay tuned 784 00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:29,840 for more information hi this is dr. 785 00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:32,750 Pamela gay from astronomy cast each week 786 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:35,000 Fraser Cain and I take our listeners on 787 00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:37,010 a fact-based journey through the cosmos 788 00:36:42,849 --> 00:36:40,070 with our weekly podcast we explain not 789 00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:42,859 just what we know but how we know what 790 00:36:47,410 --> 00:36:44,660 we know about this universe that we 791 00:36:50,050 --> 00:36:47,420 share check us out at astronomy cast 792 00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:50,060 calm and look for us in itunes google 793 00:36:54,830 --> 00:36:51,920 play and where ever you download 794 00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:54,840 podcasts see online 795 00:36:58,110 --> 00:36:57,760 [Music] 796 00:37:17,779 --> 00:36:58,120 [Applause] 797 00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:20,549 downtown San Francisco I'm just near the 798 00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:23,049 Ferry Building which is at the end of 799 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:25,569 Market Street those of you who know it 800 00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:29,170 and that is if you don't well I guess 801 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:31,480 you can look at Google Maps I'm going to 802 00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:33,730 walk along the Embarcadero past all the 803 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:36,760 piers it takes about half an hour so 804 00:37:42,809 --> 00:37:39,970 it's a pleasant stroll the street cars 805 00:37:44,819 --> 00:37:42,819 whizzing by me in the traffic and I'll 806 00:37:47,609 --> 00:37:44,829 be heading for the museum McCanney could 807 00:37:50,789 --> 00:37:47,619 say it's a fascinating place it's full 808 00:37:55,210 --> 00:37:50,799 of old arcade games dating back a 809 00:38:00,700 --> 00:37:57,250 here comes the cable car right now our 810 00:38:02,350 --> 00:38:00,710 trailer should say there it goes 811 00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:02,360 the trams are different from the cable 812 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:04,070 cars but anyway part of the attraction 813 00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:06,410 no part of the interest of this museum 814 00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:09,440 I'm heading to apart from the old 815 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:11,120 pinball machines I used to play are a 816 00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:14,530 collection of fortune-telling machines 817 00:38:24,690 --> 00:38:21,830 dating back decades so the museum 818 00:38:28,030 --> 00:38:24,700 [Music] 819 00:38:31,180 --> 00:38:28,040 well almost at the destination the 820 00:38:33,550 --> 00:38:31,190 Museum of the the arcade games but on 821 00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:33,560 the way of course no quick visit to Pier 822 00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:36,260 39 the very famous tourist spot where 823 00:38:40,770 --> 00:38:39,320 I'm getting lighted to say the sea lions 824 00:38:43,150 --> 00:38:40,780 are back in force 825 00:38:48,270 --> 00:38:43,160 hundreds I'm looking at hundreds of sea 826 00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:52,000 some years are as few as one or two and 827 00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:53,780 this year they seem to be back with the 828 00:39:06,070 --> 00:38:56,780 virgins and along with the tourists 829 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,589 [Music] 830 00:39:17,979 --> 00:39:14,109 and here we are entering the museum 831 00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:17,989 mechanic entrance antique coin-operated 832 00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:25,849 bustling with people I've met I've never 833 00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,599 seen so many people in here it's quite 834 00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:30,000 incredible normally there's four five 835 00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:31,560 six seven eight nine people running 836 00:39:35,370 --> 00:39:32,640 around but this place is absolutely 837 00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:39,020 and we'll see if we can find our 838 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:41,710 fortune-telling 839 00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:44,690 devices what's this one 840 00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:52,290 the big laughing 841 00:40:02,950 --> 00:39:58,720 robot come doll I see the first one here 842 00:40:05,859 --> 00:40:02,960 grandmother predictions but it's got a 843 00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:05,869 queue that's everything's everything's 844 00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:15,220 wizard predictions 845 00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:19,540 quarters only 846 00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:22,150 and it's a little like a Harry Potter 847 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:25,280 wizard about two feet tall I guess with 848 00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:38,289 so get my chords out 849 00:40:38,299 --> 00:40:46,190 and 50 cents a place Oh 850 00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:48,859 Hortis go in and the magician is moving 851 00:40:55,690 --> 00:40:51,940 his head around the magic one comes up 852 00:40:59,770 --> 00:40:55,700 the hat lifts up nothing under the Hat 853 00:41:01,230 --> 00:40:59,780 he looks around that goes down caps the 854 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:01,240 one on the table 855 00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:05,930 tap tap another tap 856 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:09,680 their dissipation what's happening now 857 00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:15,950 you know the Terra 858 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:18,260 and a no and a card falls out of the 859 00:41:23,950 --> 00:41:22,370 bottom of the machine here we go 860 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:23,960 I have to go over here it's a bit more 861 00:41:40,890 --> 00:41:35,370 like they have to walk outside the venue 862 00:41:43,350 --> 00:41:40,900 on the other side goodness me I've never 863 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:43,360 seen it so packed the Wizards 864 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:46,210 predictions it says cultivate a sense of 865 00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:48,850 humor it's always a good idea it is 866 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:50,590 dangerous to go through life thinking 867 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:53,890 too much of the serious things have the 868 00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:56,410 fun you deserve don't overlook don't 869 00:42:01,380 --> 00:41:58,510 overlook opportunities that require some 870 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:01,390 imagination and daring there may be 871 00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:03,610 certain circumstances when you should 872 00:42:12,990 --> 00:42:06,880 gamble with fate for the best results 873 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:13,000 if you lose so what well we read on the 874 00:42:18,180 --> 00:42:14,890 experience gained could be worth far 875 00:42:20,910 --> 00:42:18,190 more than the state of indecision or no 876 00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:20,920 action at all whether married or single 877 00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:24,460 you should never neglect romance it 878 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:27,420 should prove to be the real tonic 879 00:42:32,010 --> 00:42:29,530 stimulating your activities inspiring 880 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:32,020 you with higher ideals and putting a 881 00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:34,810 sparkle into your personality Travel is 882 00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:36,910 not recommended oh boy I'm in trouble 883 00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:38,950 Travel is not recommended and may be 884 00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:41,260 better for you to remain with them in 885 00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:43,270 the familiar environment I am in trouble 886 00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:45,910 you'll be happier by entertaining 887 00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:47,710 relatives and friends and visiting them 888 00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:50,560 big trouble money should not be one of 889 00:42:57,810 --> 00:42:53,680 your particular problems for likely you 890 00:43:01,380 --> 00:42:57,820 have learnt to save you are lovely and I 891 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:01,390 loved so there you go it must be true 892 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:03,730 and it says at the bottom new musi 893 00:43:15,630 --> 00:43:12,850 mechanic San Francisco wwm USA EMCC a in 894 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:15,640 IQ u e.com I'll link to that in the show 895 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:18,130 notes my dive back in and play Indiana 896 00:43:46,250 --> 00:44:09,680 [Music] 897 00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:12,030 thank you for listening to the skeptic 898 00:44:19,530 --> 00:44:15,580 zone throughout 2017 and for those old 899 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:19,540 timers since 2008 it's hard to believe 900 00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:22,690 that in a few hours it'll be 2018 and 901 00:44:27,089 --> 00:44:25,150 that means the skeptic zone would have 902 00:44:29,490 --> 00:44:27,099 been produced and heard in 11 different 903 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:29,500 years good grief 904 00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:33,250 when I started the show I was only 12 it 905 00:44:39,150 --> 00:44:36,700 seems like it it seems like a long time 906 00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:39,160 ago the skeptic zone was kicked off but 907 00:44:46,170 --> 00:44:43,150 it goes on into 2018 I wonder what 2018 908 00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:46,180 will bring now all of this year I've 909 00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:48,730 been engaged with the help of some 910 00:44:52,829 --> 00:44:50,580 friends on a project about predictions 911 00:44:54,930 --> 00:44:52,839 collating predictions since the year 912 00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:54,940 2000 in Australia published predictions 913 00:45:00,960 --> 00:44:58,210 by psychics by psychics 914 00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:00,970 you can't see the air quotes and other 915 00:45:09,839 --> 00:45:06,640 seers I hoped to have this whole project 916 00:45:14,430 --> 00:45:09,849 brought to an end by now but it's so big 917 00:45:15,930 --> 00:45:14,440 and it takes so long to verify hundreds 918 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:15,940 and hundreds of predictions it really 919 00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:18,970 does the stranger things down under 920 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:21,910 group and I met once for a whole day and 921 00:45:25,950 --> 00:45:23,710 we barely scratched the surface just 922 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:25,960 going through predictions to verify them 923 00:45:33,540 --> 00:45:29,290 check them do they come true did they 924 00:45:36,270 --> 00:45:33,550 not they wish owashi so the project has 925 00:45:39,060 --> 00:45:36,280 been extended by a whole year just to 926 00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:39,070 finish it and indeed when the project's 927 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:41,830 finished I don't think 2018 will factor 928 00:45:46,109 --> 00:45:44,170 in at all because it's just more 929 00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:46,119 predictions to verify how we'll see 930 00:45:49,859 --> 00:45:48,190 anyway hopefully by the end of 2018 931 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:49,869 we'll be able to bring you the results 932 00:45:57,810 --> 00:45:55,210 of that long and detailed project a big 933 00:45:59,640 --> 00:45:57,820 thank you to all my wonderful reporters 934 00:46:02,599 --> 00:45:59,650 throughout the years especially the ones 935 00:46:05,849 --> 00:46:02,609 over the last year look forward to more 936 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:05,859 fantastic reports in 2018 and a big 937 00:46:10,020 --> 00:46:07,930 thank you to all our sponsors when I say 938 00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:10,030 sponsors I mean you the show actually 939 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:12,960 doesn't have any sponsors all the 940 00:46:16,890 --> 00:46:15,250 commercials you hear the promotions 941 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:16,900 they're all free I don't charge anything 942 00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:19,770 for that it's what I think 943 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:21,960 I do that for a service a community 944 00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:23,970 service to the skeptical community for 945 00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:26,040 websites and other podcasts I think you 946 00:46:30,050 --> 00:46:28,320 should know about the true sponsorship 947 00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:30,060 comes from people like you through 948 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:33,270 patreon and PayPal at skeptic zone TV 949 00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:36,510 and you are the only reason the show 950 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:39,840 keeps going the people who do chip in so 951 00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:41,610 I am very grateful thank you to all 952 00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:43,920 those lovely people some four years now 953 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:46,500 even if it's a dollar or three dollars 954 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:48,810 or five dollars or $20 a month 955 00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,690 it means the show keeps going but for 956 00:46:56,810 --> 00:46:54,240 now for the last time in 2017 957 00:47:04,670 --> 00:46:56,820 this is Richard Saunders signing off 958 00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,680 from the Bay Area San Francisco you've 959 00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:06,480 been listening to the skeptic zone 960 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:10,710 podcast please visit our website at WWE 961 00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:15,090 TV for sure nerds contacts and to access 962 00:47:21,470 --> 00:47:17,880 the bat catalog of episodes going back 963 00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:21,480 to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone 964 00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:25,140 podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit 965 00:47:28,420 --> 00:47:27,540 our facebook page or leave a review on 966 00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:28,430 itunes 967 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:31,110 you can also support the skeptic zone 968 00:47:37,580 --> 00:47:35,010 via patreon or paypal you can be part of 969 00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:37,590 the show by downloading the voice byte 970 00:47:45,350 --> 00:47:42,000 app at voice bite comm and using the 971 00:47:48,070 --> 00:47:45,360 hashtag skeptic zone the skeptic zone 972 00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:48,080 podcast is an independent production 973 00:47:52,610 --> 00:47:50,460 reviews and opinions expressed on the 974 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:52,620 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 975 00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:54,930 of Australian skeptics or any other